Marie Mite8ameg8k8e


Subject: Mite8ameg8k8e
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 16:05:24 -0500
From: Suzanne B Sommerville <110435.1567@compuserve.com>
To: Virginia Easley DeMarce <veasleyd@aol.com>, Min
<minc@chi.tds.net>


Hello again, Virginia, (and Greetings to Min.)
I was browsing Rootsweb and saw that you, Virginia, posted my message to
you re: Mite8ameg8k8e [Thanks], and I saw the message from Min.
07/26/2000 9:46:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: minc@chi.tds.net (Min)
To: Veasleyd@aol.com

She asks about the Nation des Outiatarons and says
> I looked into Algonquin nations and found a subnation of Algonquin called the Amerindienne that have designated themselves as Qu'anishinabeg. The Qu'Anishinabeg have nine situated communities in Outaoauais and in Abitibi-Temiscamingue. The word "Outaoauais" is the closest I can come to "Outiatarons." Do you have any suggestions? The Qu'Anishinabeg also speak of three area within Outaoauais which are, Kitcisakik, Lake quick, Zibi Kitigan. Can you place where this Outaoauais might be?
Could you tell me your source for the term Outiatarons applied to Marie Mite8ameg8k8e?

Amerindienne simply means a female Indian of unspecified tribe.
The Outaoauais, as Min has it , (It is spelled various ways, often " 8ta8ois ") was a general word the French used for the Western tribes, including the Ottawas but not limited to them. The Outiatarons could _possibly_ be the Ontarahronon (u and n were often mistaken for each other, except when the symbol 8 is transcribed as "ou").

According to the Appendix in Lucien Campeau's _La Mission des Jésuites chez les Hurons, 1634-1650_, they were one of the Algonquine nations of the Ligue du Feu or Fire League, which included the Ottawa, Chippewa and Potawatomi. Paul Rageneau, who married Marie and Pierre Couc, knew them and wrote of them. I am not sure whether the word itself is Iroquois or Algonquin in origin. That is a further complication, as we have various names for each "tribe" written in both families of languages, not to mention the French, English, and Dutch versions. That's part of the problem.
Qu'anishinabeg strikes me as possibly Anishinabe, which means "the original man" or "first Man", as do most of the original names for the various tribes in their original languages. The Anishinabe are the Chippewa or Ojibway.

The peoples the French first called Algonquin were the Weskarini Indians, aka in Algonquine: Kichesipirini; Kiche: Grande; sipé: rivière; iriné: gens or people of the Grand Rivier (note the root -irini, also found in Charles Pachirini's name.), who inhabited the area on the Ottawa and Gatineau Rivers (and Allumette Island and Morrison Island) at the time of contact.

When the Iroquois obtained trade guns from the Dutch in the 1630-40s and destroyed or scattered the Hurons in Huronia by 1650, these Algonquins were forced to relocate, and some of them went west to Mackinac and other areas of Michigan. (Of course, this is where the Couc daughters, their brother Louis, and their husbands also went in the 1690s.)

Other Algonquins became part of the French Colony, thirty families in 1640 arrived at Sillery. I believe Marie was among this group with Pachirini's "tribe", but I see no definite family relationship established.

Examining the documents, I also realize that fathers/ mothers do not have the same Indian names as their children, nor any relationship in the sounds in most cases I have seen.
Another side note: I believe Charles Pachirini was originally "8scharini" in at least one record at Trois-Rivères, the 8 (or "ou") being read as a P. That is closer to weskarini in sound, isn't it, but this is only a guess on my part. It is so hard to read those early records.

Here is Marie's record as it appears in PRDH
89036  Trois-Rivières  1657-04-16  Rank   Name  Age  M.S. Pr. Sex
01 PIERRE COUC LAFLEUR Origin : PAROISSE DE COGNAC --- c p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
02 MARIE MITEOUAMEGOUKOUE Origin : ALGONQUINE --- c p f
------------------------------------------------------------------
03 NICOLAS COUC SPOUSE OF 04 FATHER OF 01 --- m --- m
------------------------------------------------------------------
04 ELISABETH TEMPLAIR SPOUSE OF 03 MOTHER OF 01 --- m --- f
------------------------------------------------------------------
05 CHARLES PACHIRINI Origin : ALGONQUIN --- --- --- m
------------------------------------------------------------------
06 BARTHELEMY ANARAOUI Origin : ALGONQUIN --- --- --- m
------------------------------------------------------------------
07 PERE [That's Jean Péré, a merchant from La Rochelle] Occupation :
MARCHAND --- --- p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
08 AMEAU ST SEVERIN [the notary] --- --- p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
09 PAUL RAGUENEAU Occupation : JESUITE --- c p m
------------------------------------------------------------------

The same witnesses served for another marriage that day, so, again, there is no guarantee that they are "family", although Marguerite, below, does have the "irini" particle in the name of her tribal origin:

89037 Trois-Rivières  1657-04-16  Rank Name Age M.S. Pr. Sex
01 ETIENNE MAGOUCH Origin : NEPISSINGUE --- --- p m
-------------------------------------------------------------------
02 MARGUERITE TCHIOUANTOUKOUE Origin : OUSAGAHIGANIRINIOUENSEN --- p f
-------------------------------------------------------------------
03 CHARLES PACHIRINI Origin : ALGONQUIN --- --- --- m
-------------------------------------------------------------------
04 BARTHELEMY ANARAOUI Origin : ALGONQUIN --- --- --- m
-------------------------------------------------------------------
05 PERE Occupation : MARCHAND --- --- p m
-------------------------------------------------------------------
06 AMEAU ST SEVERIN --- --- p m
-------------------------------------------------------------------
07 PAUL RAGUENEAU Occupation : JESUITE --- c p m
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Latin name Carolus has been translated by the PRDH into its male French form Charles; it is definitely not Carole, female. I have photocopies of the Latin originals. The two marriage contracts Pierre filed provide no further information, or if it is there it is in an unreadable section. The document is damaged. I have a copy.
At any rate, I just had to comment. There is far too much "presumption" in the published indexes. Until I started looking at actual records, I had no idea how many index entries are simply wrong or misreadings or outright guesses. Of course, I am open to documented sources I may know nothing about at this point. I am just beginning to make my way through the many confusing names applied to the tribes.

Marie may have had two children by Assababich, named Pierre and Catherine:

87209 Trois-Rivières 1650-05-06 Rank Name Age M.S. Pr. Sex
01 PIERRE Origin : INDIEN --- c p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
02 ASSABABICH FATHER OF 01 Origin : INDIEN --- m p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
03 MITEOUMIGOUKOUE MOTHER OF 01 Origin : INDIENNE --- m p f
------------------------------------------------------------------
04 PIERRE DESCHAMPS --- --- p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
LE REDACTEUR A OMIS DE SIGNER

87340 Trois-Rivières 1652-11-01 Rank Name Age M.S. Pr. Sex
01 CATHERINE Origin : INDIENNE 005 c p f
------------------------------------------------------------------
02 ASSABABICH FATHER OF 01 Origin : INDIEN --- --- p m
------------------------------------------------------------------
03 MARIE MITEOUAMEGOUKOUE MOTHER OF 01 Origin : INDIENNE --- --- p f
------------------------------------------------------------------
04 ANNE DUHERISSON --- --- p f [This is wife of Antoine Desrosiers]
------------------------------------------------------------------
05 JOSEPH DUPERON Occupation : JESUITE --- c p m
------------------------------------------------------------------

I know of no further trace of Pierre or Catherine, children of Assababich. They certainly do not appear in the 1667 or 1681 censuses with the Couc family. Catherine, 5 in 1652, would have been 20 in 1667 and Pierre 17 ?.
I do not know what Indian name might have been added to Pierre and Catherine's Christian first names.

Sorry to go on like this, but I do want the record straight, at least as it is now documented. Published indexes are just that; indexes, not irrefutable proof. Although Jetté's Dictionnaire and PRDH are more reputable than most, they are still accepting corrections to their indexes.

Before their site went on the web, PRDH had already removed the reference to Marie's parents, apparently entered in error by Jetté. In the last year, I filed several corrections with PRDH based on my work with photocopies of the originals, some of which have already been added to their data.

For your info, Virginia, regarding the next generation: I have found a document that affirms Joachim Germaneau, Isabelle Couc's first husband, was deceased by 10 Dec 1700 (Normandin) when his property at Rivière-du-Loup (later Louiseville) was conceded to Pierre Dulignon by Jean Lechasseur. If I am reading the document correctly, it says Germaneau had abandonned the property six years previously, which corresponds with the last known notary record filed for him by Pierre Lamoureux dit Saint-Germain in Montréal 9 September of 1694 (Adhémar) hiring Joachim Lucas dit bourgerault? to go to serve Germaneau, who was said to be among the Ottawas, perhaps at Michillimackinac, where he went two years earlier. Lucas was to return to Montréal the following year 1695. I do not believe anyone else has ever cited this concession. Certainly, Simone Vincens did not. Not all of the contract is readable, at least I can't read it all, but his food for the voyage and his year of service, 400 livres in money of New France, a "capot", six shirts, two pairs of mittasses, smoking tobacco, a packet of castors that he can bring down with him on his return, and another fifty livres [when he returns?], are promised to Lucas. I cannot place this Joachim Lucas in Jetté. Perhaps there is an error in his first name, Adhémar simply repeating in error Germaneau's first name. I will be advising PRDH.
Suzanne



To: Suzanne Boivin Sommerville
Subj: Re: Mite8ameg8k8e
Date: 07/26/2000 9:46:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: minc@chi.tds.net (Min)
To: Veasleyd@aol.com

Virginia:

Thank you very much for sending this information. I went to the American-Canadian Genealogical Society tonight and did extensive research on Marie Miteouamigoukoue.

Here is what I found:
Marie Miteouamegoukoue had first marriage in 1647 with Assababich and had daughter named Catherine. PRDH
Marie Miteouamegoukoue then married Pierre Couc LaFleur on 16 Apr 1657.
In attendance at wedding was Charles Pachirini (from her mother's side), Barthelemy Anaraoui (ACGS sermise that Anaraoui might be a another name for her father). Péré, Ameau St. Severin and Paul Ragueneau (The Priest). PRDH

In the "Dictionnaire Genealogique des familles du Quebec" there is reference to Marie Miteouamigoukoue and her parents being Barthelemi & Carole Pachirini.

I am not sure how accurate the Vincens is but I think the info I found is pretty solid and reputable, what do you think? Also, in your original message in rootsweb you mentioned a note. In that note you have Nation des Outiatarons. Is that information from Vincens? I looked into Algonquin nations and found a subnation of Algonquin called the Amerindienne that have designated themselves as Qu'anishinabeg. The Qu'Anishinabeg have nine situated communities in Outaoauais and in Abitibi-Temiscamingue. The word "Outaoauais" is the closest I can come to "Outiatarons." Do you have any suggestions? The Qu'Anishinabeg also speak of three area within Outaoauais which are, Kitcisakik, Lake quick, Zibi Kitigan. Can you place where this Outaoauais might be?

Thank you very much for all your time and patience.
Regards,
Min